Talk:Logia
Header I don't know what you guys are thinking not talking about this at all but you're all odd. People need to get something straight here. This is the only fruit with out essays written about it. And yet it's the most powerful and by far the coolest class of devils fruit. And this is the first Here I'll start it off if you guys are that lazy: - Kizaru is the fastest - What would happen if Kizaru and Blackbeard had it out? - What would happen if Mr 0/Crocodile was in a fight with Enel? - Is there a water fruit? See it isn't that hard. Just watch some past eps and start there. ~Daniel Sep. 8th. :I don't see what you're talking about. The page has just as much info as the other fruit types. :As for your sentence suggestions, most are questions whose answers can only give speculations. The Kizaru thing is true to some point since light is extremely fast but is it really necessary?Mugiwara Franky 08:04, September 8, 2009 (UTC) I just meant the discussion page should be filled with more than nothing like it has been. This is a great aspect of the series and it's just a shame to see that it doesn't have people talking about it like they should be. I just think that people should be fully using the discussion pages other than for just change complaints and things of those nature that's all. Plus what's the harm in openly discussing speculation? I see no harm in that. Like I said this is a discussino page for a reason right? ~Daniel Sep 8. 12:24 :The talk pages of the articles are generally meant to be used to discuss the various aspects of a page amongst the various contributors. Things like verifying the source of info, character name spelling, views on what is the correct info among editors, and other stuff like that are what are generally supposed to be in the talk page. It's a place where editors can talk to one another and try to understand each other so there won't be edit wars and the page can be properly maintained. :The stuff you wish to talk about unfortunately doesn't belong here. They kinda belong in a forum where stuff like that can be discussed. If it was regularly discussed in the article talk pages, then more important issues like spelling, confirmation, and overall article status would be overlooked. If you really wish to have a place to talk about such stuff, try Arlong Park Forums.Mugiwara Franky 16:45, September 8, 2009 (UTC) Jinbei and Whitebeard overcoming the Logia weakness? It states that Rayleigh, Hancock, Whitebeard, Jinbei, and Marco were all capable of overcoming the Logia weakness in order to harm them. Now, Rayleigh and Hancock are obvious through the use of Haki, but Marco didn't really harm Kizaru with his Phoenix powers, did he? I dunno, I just think that should be amended. As for Whitebeard and Jinbei, I don't remember them ever actually harming Logia types. Is it possible for there to be some kind of source included to prove these claims? Otherwise, you know, it's obvious that they should be removed. Subrosian 04:36, October 17, 2009 (UTC) Excuse me, let me correct that. It says that Marco, Whitebeard, and Jinbei were able to nullify their Logia powers. Marco's I understand, so strike that from the record. But, Whitebeard and Jinbei, I still don't recall them nullifying anyone's Logia powers. Subrosian 04:38, October 17, 2009 (UTC) What?! He beat the hell out of Ace post eating his fruit in that flashback. ~Daniel 12.18 Yeah, and Whitebeard beat thecrap out of Akainu. he couldn't have hit him without haki. And with Kizaru, if he was intangible when Marco kicked him, he wouldn't have been sent flying. He is just durable. ~Pacifista15 10.48 Well Whitebeard has his shock wave that he uses and it seems like it doesn't matter what your made of if something that big and powerful hits you, your going to move. I suppose. ~that guy as for Marco attacking Akainu, I think its pretty safe to say that logia that have haki themselves are able to resist haki attacks to a point. or at least reduce the lethality of the damage. 08:15, February 2, 2011 (UTC) Water Logia Fruit is there a water devil fruit? then will the person eating the devil fruit able to swim and weaken other devil fruit user 00:04, December 22, 2009 (UTC)hakim :There are no water fruit and no seastone fruit. These fruits are impossible becuase liqud water is the weakness of all DF users. El Chupacabra 15:12, December 22, 2009 (UTC) ::There is a non-canon anime Logia fruit called the Toro Toro no Mi. It however turns the user into a liquid that's not specifically water.Mugiwara Franky 16:19, December 22, 2009 (UTC) Haki being the true damage effect? I don't know why we're already saying that haki is the main source of doing damage to them when it's never ever ever been said how Rayliegh pulled that off against Kizaru. Or how Boa hurt Smoker. And it's really pissing me the fuck off that people think it is Haki that's allowing for that too happen. ~Daniel 12.27.09 :Dear Dan... Can't you sign your posts properly ~~~~ please. :Anyway I'm not going to get started on the haki argument, we've zero from Oda on it in SBS as far as I can tell. One-Winged Hawk 09:28, December 28, 2009 (UTC) :The thing is that it appears to be only reasonable explanation why certain people are capable of doing things. For Rayleigh, Haki seems to be the only reason for two things 1) Rayleigh is a known Haki user and 2) Kizaru is a guy who can turn into light, a substance which can't be easily countered. :For Hancock, it's actually been stated in the very chapter that it was Haki when she hit Smoker.Mugiwara Franky 10:30, December 28, 2009 (UTC) Akainu's devil fruit I have read in many spanish fansites, Akainu's fruit as the "Yogan Yogan no mi". :Okay, but until we get confirmation from a reliable source (i.e. Oda), there's no way to tell if this is actually true, no matter how many fansites you've heard it on. 2xN 14:08, May 22, 2010 (UTC) repeat inormation Other information now repeats whats already written since someone updated "Strengths" and "weaknesses" without updating "Other...". Can someone correct this, I'm limited on what I can do until tomorrow and I have a task to fulfill tomorrow. 20:22, September 11, 2010 (UTC) Dodge attacks by "becoming their element"? This is kind of getting on my nerves, you're saying that they have to become their element to dodge bullets/sword slashes etc? Well please explain this, why do the "hole" which they dodge with create the second the bullets hit their body? It's clear that they don't have to do anything, and no one can even react in their sleep, since they are unconscious. The only reasonable explanation I could have to this is that they have 3 different levels of the "transform" 1. Not being their element. - NO HAKI REQUIRED 2. Being in human form but they cant touch anything and can't be touched, since they are their element. - HAKI REQUIRED 2.5. "How do they stand on the ground?" They choose to only make some parts of their body invulnerable. 3. Being "transformed", clearly showing their element, and making their element visible. - DOES HAKI WORK? Please, can someone explain this? 03:44, July 14, 2011 (UTC)Sewil Logia abilities can be trained to be used reflexively so that the body can react to attacks unconsciously, how they are trained is unknown. 03:49, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Controlling the element not generated from the body I would appreciate a reference concerning this paragraph: "A minor weakness is that Logia users '''can only control their elements when generated from themselves', and not if it is in another state of matter, meaning that they cannot control their respective elements if it was not generated from their bodies. However, this could be bypassed by simply mixing their own element with a pre-existing amount of the particular element in order to augment the strength of the attack (as Crocodile did with his sandstorms). Yet, this only works if there already is a substantial elemental source, such as a desert or an expanse of water."'' Could anyone provide one? Else I will remove it from the article. Thanks! 14:27, July 15, 2011 (UTC) I don't think it has ever been seen a logia user using anything else but the element that is generated from their body, so I think that is correct. Sewil 16:54, July 16, 2011 (UTC) I do have to agree. I'm thinking about Crocodile fighting Luffy in the tomb. There was no sand and he didn't have time to break down any rock, so he had to rely on what his own body could produce. 16:59, July 16, 2011 (UTC) @ Sewil Thing is, only because we didn't see it doesn't mean they can't. Example: Up until recently only humans were seen using devil fruits, but we didn't state that devil fruits only work on humans. I don't have anything against the theory itself, but articles are holy ground and without a proper reference, this paragraph is material for blogs and forums. The fact that there isn't a single reference kinda proofs that it is fanon. 17:20, July 16, 2011 (UTC) It was never stated, but it was demonstrated. The first time was with Crocodile, the second time was with Ace fighting Teach. He set something on fire and then drew the flames back to his body. Also if this wasn't true, then Kizaru would be the most overpowered character in the series. Light is everywhere, yet he didn't manipulate it at Sabaody and Marineford. 17:29, July 16, 2011 (UTC) I don't understand the Crocodile example, yes he used his own sand in the tomb, because there was none. How does this prove that he can't control sand in general? There was no sand for him to control and so he couldn't prove it. And Ace, flames drawing back to his body? If that was anime only it isn't canon anyway. And for Kizaru, that is really pure speculation. We don't know how his powers exactly work, maybe he did gather the sunlight around him to enhance his attacks. Thats the problem really, this discussion here sounds like its from a blog or a forum. References is what its all about, especially when it concerns fundamental workings of OP. 17:34, July 16, 2011 (UTC) Ace retracting his flames is canon. As for Kizaru's light, it was seen coming out from his finger, not being collected at the tip, whenever he was about to do a laser attack. 17:41, July 16, 2011 (UTC) Okay, lets say Ace retracting his flames is canon, even if I doubt it. It still doesn't prove that he can not control flames that didn't came out of his body, since it was all his. What we need is an example of a logia-user that could not make use of the element outside of his body. How would you formulate such a reference? 17:52, July 16, 2011 (UTC) @DancePowderer I just finished Episode 325, seeing the flames he retracted was created from his own body, with the skill "Fire Fist", so that is fire produced from his own Devil Fruit. And to manipulate the element outside ones body would be too much overpower, so I don't think Oda would accept that, btw how do you do that template thingy? Sewil 18:15, July 16, 2011 (UTC) I found one. Aokiji's Ice Ball. It's a ranged attack, but if you follow the vapor trail, it leads back to his body. He couldn't just freeze the air x feet away. ---- Reader: Question, Odacchi! Ace ate the Mera Mera no Mi so he can... *(1) "Can turn his body into flame"? *(2) "Can shoot flame from his body", which one is it? Oda: The answer is (1). But his secret move "Hiken" (Fire Punch) is a skill where he raises his "firepower" and turns his fist into a huge flame, so it ends up looking more like (2). ---- Does this help? He merely becomes fire, and uses that in his body to make Hiken. Also, @Jinbe, I used the Suna Suna no Mi as merely an example for ALL Logia. 18:41, July 17, 2011 (UTC) Doesn't really help, since it is only directed to his body, which is unquestioned. And about Crocodile, what about this 669px-Deserto_Girasole.jpg ? There is no way to tell if he used his own sand there or manipulated everything. This even brings the "mixes his own sand" back into play. But this doesn't concern me at all. It is the fact that we state it like it comes out of Vegapunks mouth. The appropriate way (if at all) would be to state that there is no clear sign that Logias can control their element that didn't came out of their body. We have yet to clearly witness it, but it doesn't mean that the whole family of logias can't. Similar how we handled fishmen and devil fruits. We didn't state that they can't use them, we just said that we have yet to witness a fishmen using a devil fruit. 19:00, July 17, 2011 (UTC) It is generally very difficult to prove that something is true, usually you made a deduction based on your data and, if it fits the data, it can be thought as true unless you find a counter-example, it's the same for this or for proving a physic law (think about the gravity law)... and it's not the same about the DF-fishman thing, because that theory was based on nothing, because there was nothing to think they cannot have a df. If you think that this is speculate, I don't, because we provide enough examples to show that a logia-user always use the outside environment only as a catalyst. About the desert girasole, Crocodile said that he can dedect thee quick-sands, so it was already there... but I think he activated it whith the "desert la spada" which created a void in the sand. So, about the "mixing their element", will we simply say that they use their environment to amplifie their own element? We also have to be careful with how we use the word "manipulate". Some of Kuzan's attacks (like those spears he shot at Whitebeard) could be seen as manipulating the element since ice doesn't naturally take the form of perfect spears like that. 19:36, July 17, 2011 (UTC) I really don't agree with this. "I think". "I believe". Since when do we play Oda like that? Please tell me why it is necessary to state "they can not, under any circumstances, 'control the element outside of their body", while all we have are vague observations? Its like calling Doflamingo a DF user while nothing is confirmed. Why? I'm serious, why do we have to handle it like we have total insight? (which we have undoubtedly not, as this discussion shows). 19:41, July 17, 2011 (UTC) I understand your concern and you're right. But I don't see any problems in stating that, since until now I never thought that logia users could manipulate the environment (like Shiki's example). Then, the examples we showed here count nothing? I'll try to find a better reference of course, but is it really a speculation to state that? Right, I want to make clear again that I have nothing against the theory itself. I would just like a neutral approach on the matter, instead of selling it as a cleared up fact. I would have nothing against rephrasing the paragraph. Like "we have yet to witness a logia user controlling the element when it didn't came from his/her body". Why do we have to act like we know the exact workings? 20:04, July 17, 2011 (UTC) Well I suppose it's ok then. We can say that up until now, logia user has always used the environment as catalyst and not showed control over it. Right, Caribou can create a swamp out of his own body, and become a swamp body itself, but he haven't seen him controlling a swamp in the marshes or anything like that. So until we see something like that, we don't put they can or cannot control elements outside of their own bodies. We simply put something like "Logia are people who can generate, become and control an element from their bodies". We don't need to write "they can/cannot control the said element from an already existing source". 20:15, July 17, 2011 (UTC) So, can we get rid of the paragraph or do we have to vote? 19:34, July 26, 2011 (UTC) "Get rid"? Do you mean make it more "neutral" like ''it seems that or we never seen a logia user? Either way, tho Yata has a point with his example. We usually don't state what characters or things can not do, means this would be an exception to the rule. I would like to remove it completely, but if you and DP want it so badly to stay then I agree (at least) to rephrase it completely. 19:44, July 26, 2011 (UTC) Guys, I have a question and if you find the answer, you might find an answer to this big problem, now the question: Did Oda explain what a Logia DF user does, in the manga, through a character or anywhere else, and if he did, then we just need to have in the article what he says! All you're doing is speculating! 19:54, July 26, 2011 (UTC) @Jinbe: yes rephrase it will be the best solution in my opinion and I mean rephrase it like we do with the trivias. And is it really a special case? I have the impression we always describe the powers/abilities of a character by what he showed he has able or not able to do. @Ricizubi: the only direct explanation of logia powers by Oda was the SBS question mentioned by Yatano, for what I remember. P.S.: we should really send a letter to Oda inviting him to join the wiki... everything would be simpler... I absolutely agree with you Levi, we need to invite Oda on this wiki, but we need a representative!hmmm Yata is the best choice, but I think we should discuss this topic somewhere else... 20:11, July 26, 2011 (UTC) But things could be so simple. Let's just state what we know for sure. Even if we say "we haven't seen a logia user manipulating his element outside of his body" it would be the same lie (since we don't know for sure, see Crocodile gyrasole). The "golden rule" of become, control and produce is fanmade as well, Oda never stated it. But there we describe what we have clearly witnessed, unlike speculating about what a logia user can not do, just because we haven't (clearly) seen it. You know what I mean? 20:15, July 26, 2011 (UTC) But we can't always wait Oda word on everything (that's why I said let's invite him!), since he will not clarify every problem. If we only state what we have seen, that is a logia user become, produce and control the element generated by his body we don't speculate. That thing about the "girasole", I think it was misjudged by us, because the quick sand was already there, it wasn't created by Crocodile, so there isn't any problem on that matter. I think this case is similar to the discussion about Jozu DF, which someone thought was a Logia. In that case we don't know if it's a logia or a paramisha, but for what we have seen we have no reason to think it's a logia. Let's reason for absurd: if you are too strict on "what we know" and "what we don't know" we can be sure that Luffy is a human since it was never stated, or that whitebeard could be a giant for the same reason. We should follow the rule, "avoid stating thing that are in doubt", but for the rest it shouldn't be a big problem. If it comes from deduction through observation, then I think it would be fine as long as the majority agrees on it. It seems like we are riding too much on the fact that no explanation about it came directly from Oda, which is fine, but to a point. We have to be able to trust our own observations and add them through consenus. If it turns out to be wrong, we fix it. We had the old Vander Decken as captain of the Flying Dutchman until his grandson was properly introduced, so we can do the same thing here until there's a better explanation about Logias. 20:41, July 26, 2011 (UTC) "We should follow the rule, "avoid stating thing that are in doubt", but for the rest it shouldn't be a big problem." I think the discussion clearly shows that we are in doubt, since no side can provide clear evidence. Also, I agree that observation is okay to a degree, but we have to differ between the articles and sections (like trivia). Devil fruits are holy ground and Oda stated he would go into detail later on (when he formally introduces Vegapunk). This is no case of "we have to use common sense because Oda will probably never explain it". And thats why I see absolutely no reason to leave it as it is. We have no right to spread our own conclusions when it comes to fundamental workings of One Piece. 12:09, July 27, 2011 (UTC) :About "Oda stated he would go into detail later on (when he formally introduces Vegapunk)", I think he'll explain what they are and maybe how can they transfer their powers, but I doubt he will explain again the logia powers. And in this discussion we are more debating on keep that sentence or not, then if it's true or not. But still, are you ok to reword it or do you really want mention it nowhere? : :That depends on the rewording I guess. I really hate it when people just add a "This is not confirmed by Oda" line below a paragraph (often seen in the trivia section). 12:25, July 27, 2011 (UTC) ::All this wall of text and people have provided few real chapters references to properly support the paragraph in question, which as of now hasn't been disproved by the latest chapters. We have Ace's Hiken (Chapter 159), Crocodile's Desert Girasole and Sables (Chapter 178), Enel's El Thor (Chapter 274), Aokiji's Ice Ball and Ice Block: Partisan (Chapter 567), Kizaru's Yasakani no Magatama (Chapter 580) and Akainu's Inugami Guren (Chapter 568). Smoker's Moku Moku no Mi attacks (Chapter 100, 158, 168) also follow the pattern. ::All of the above attacks are mid-range to long-range and follow the same pattern. The attacks are produced by the user's body and remained connected with it for as long as the control it. Crocodile said that even he couldn't stop the sandstorm he send to Yuba, Enel had to destroy himself Angel Island and the Shandian Village (Chapter 293) after he initiated Deathpiea and it was also he who shot at Giant Jack (Chapter 294, 297) during Luffy's ascend. These are the best examples presented in the manga. On the other hand, I haven't found any to support the opposite. MasterDeva 18:16, November 29, 2011 (UTC) We don't even know the true extent of how much power a devil fruit has, like if luffy trains his devil fruit long enough, will he be able to manipulate rubber? I don't think we even know if generating your own element takes up energy or not. I reckon if you keep training your logia devil fruit, you will be able to indirectly control your element without having to make it or mix it, but it probably would take up a lot of your own energy so you can't do it too much. Just my opinion XD.PhoenixRising101 01:20, February 4, 2012 (UTC) :Luffy has nothing to do with this conversation though since he is not a Logia type but a Paramecia... This isn't a talk about power or energy in the first place, but, about the amount of control a Logia user has, under certain conditions, over his own element. As of now, there haven't been any solid examples of Devil Fruit users controlling indirectly their element through training. Unless you're confusing Crocodile's words towards Luffy, everything else falls under speculation. I'll leave the quote in question under my comment so people can see it. MasterDeva 05:59, May 12, 2012 (UTC) I don't know if I'm making a correct comment here but there is a big chance that they CAN manipulate the element around them. Although I think this is non-cannon Ace was seen increasing Sanji's cigarette fire. Also in the second encounter Luffy-Crocodile in the desert crocodile made the desert it self draw Luffy inside like a quicksand and later Robin saved him. There are some vague cases in the use of logia powers and it is not clearly confirmed to what extent they can use their elements. So lets leave it at that until a proper confirmation comes. Lasaro Ginjou (talk) 11:58, December 20, 2012 (UTC) Since this conversation was took place some new evidence has surfaced, Caesar was able to draw air out of people's lungs and thus he was able to control gas he hadn't created. 21:58, December 22, 2012 (UTC) Rarity! I am aware of the fact that Mythical Zoan is rarer than Logia, (said by someone, I think Kizaru in the series) but how do we know that Ancient Zoan is also rarer than Logia? Has it been saidd somewhere? If not why is this ifo on the page? 14:40, March 4, 2012 (UTC) Please someone answer the discussion that I brought up in this section! ` No one stated that Ancient Zoans are rarer than Logia, only that they are rare. 15:11, March 9, 2012 (UTC) If there is no source then we can't just say they are more rare based on speculation, I mean just because we did not see many of them does not mean there are not many of them. If you look back, a Logia debuted before an ordinary Zoan in the series but that does not make ordinary Zoans rarer. So I think we should change the line to only Mythical Zoans. 15:40, March 9, 2012 (UTC) Already did, and you are completely right. 15:48, March 9, 2012 (UTC) Apoo stated that Ancient Zoans are rare, but no one said they were rarer than logias or anything. 16:16, March 9, 2012 (UTC) I just need someone to quickly tell me where it is stated (in the manga) that Logia users can produce limitless amounts of their element? Main Image of Logia I know the first ever Logia fruit is the Moku Moku no Mi, but why put an image from Episode 466. It makes no sense, to my eyes. (Not that I have a problem there is an image of it.) 18:15, July 5, 2013 (UTC) Because it can perfectly describe Smoker's logia abilities. 18:29, July 5, 2013 (UTC) Logias & Weapons A friend of mine says that if a Logia user used a weapon, the weapon would be affected by their powers, like... a Magu Magu no Mi user would end up melting their own weapon. However, given Eneru didn't have any problems using his staff, I disagree. But since so few Logia users have been shown actually using physical weapons, we end up speculating. So, could someone help me out here?--[[User:Kagimizu|'''Kagimizu]]-[[User talk:Kagimizu|'Seeya' 'round]] 22:57, September 2, 2013 (UTC) i think its similar to how clothes are affected by the devil fruit of their wielder-- 23:18, September 2, 2013 (UTC) Smoker uses his Jutte just fine. 00:30, September 3, 2013 (UTC) SomeDude is right Smoker can use his weapon, although he drops it when he becomes complete smoke. Naruto 45 (talk) 01:05, September 3, 2013 (UTC) I usually exclude Smoker because of the Kairoseki in his Jutte rendering it immune to his powers. But in general, a person should be able to wield their weapons normally and combine them with their powers just fine, right?--[[User:Kagimizu|'Kagi'mizu]]-[[User talk:Kagimizu|'Seeya' 'round]] 04:00, September 3, 2013 (UTC) Smoker and Caribou are the only logias to use weapons not generated from their powers. You do the math. 13:36, September 3, 2013 (UTC) What math? Also, Eneru used his staff with no problems. I realize people can make a weapon out of their powers, but can't they use a normal weapon with them as well? Crocodile's hook was brought up as well, but that's attached to his hand.--[[User:Kagimizu|'Kagi'mizu]]-[[User talk:Kagimizu|'Seeya' 'round]] 21:04, September 3, 2013 (UTC) They can be used in conjunction. Logias can't transform stuff like that. 22:23, September 3, 2013 (UTC) Logia users do not automatically turn into logia when they touch things. They have to activate the ability themselves. 22:24, September 3, 2013 (UTC) He's talking about turning the object, Galaxy. 02:26, September 4, 2013 (UTC) More specifically, I'm talking about if a Logia could use a normal weapon in conjunction with their powers, without destroying the weapon. I was just curious, given Enel (again) and transforming clothes and all objects on the person.--[[User:Kagimizu|'Kagi'mizu]]-[[User talk:Kagimizu|'Seeya' 'round]] 05:39, September 4, 2013 (UTC) The issue about the clothes of a Devil Fruit user not being affected by his powers has already been answered by Oda. As for Enel, he uses his lighting powers to mold his golden stuff into various shapes. In chapter 264, during his battle with Kamakiri, Enel's staff remained solid when his body was sliced into two pieces (he was holding it while the upper half had completely turned into lighting). In chapter 280 his body goes through the golden face of his ark, Maxim, together with his staff but he just merged the gold and gold together only to separate it afterwards. In fact, even in his 200,000,000 Volt Amaru form his staff remained solid throughout the transformation. If anything Enel never converted his staff into his element, he merely channelled his lighting abilities through it. I think that answers any questions regarding turning physical weapons into elements. As for Logia Devil Fruit users using their powers in conjunction with physical weapons, it is certainly possible. If anything, Enel was capable of holding his staff in his lighting form without it melting in his hands. MasterDeva (talk) 11:39, September 4, 2013 (UTC) Beside the case of Eneru, of which he can easily control and direct the voltage and current so it doesn't effect his weapons. The example Kagimizu was hoping to use above is someone using the Magu Magu no Mi (active) while carrying a weapon not made of seastone or infused with Armament Haki. The commonly accepted belief is that the weapon would melt since the heat of magma can't be changed by the fruit's abilities. This is with purposeful activation. - Ransac16 17:04, September 4, 2013 (UTC) My friend(s) (such as the one that gave me an edit conflict) continue to debate the matter, because Enel's staff was "designed to work with his powers" and that he could supposedly control how the electricity conducted itself and its heat. So jut outright, would someone using a Devil Fruit like the Mera Mera no Mi or Magu Magu no Mi be able to turn their hand into their element, and hold their weapon while doing so?--[[User:Kagimizu|'Kagi'mizu]]-[[User talk:Kagimizu|'Seeya' 'round]] 17:09, September 4, 2013 (UTC) It would vary from fruit to fruit. With the Mera Mera, yes, it's possible. We've seen Ace touch his hat with a flaming finger. However, we also know that the user can control if the fire burns. So the same can't be said of every logia. Enel's staff only worked with his powers because it was pure gold. 17:13, September 4, 2013 (UTC) Since Ace's hat would qualify as part of his clothing, what's the example that he can choose what he burns?--[[User:Kagimizu|'Kagi'mizu]]-[[User talk:Kagimizu|'Seeya' 'round]] 22:12, September 5, 2013 (UTC) He set fire to a bunch of wooden buildings and when he pulled the flames back they didn't have any signs of fire damage. 00:27, September 6, 2013 (UTC) Should we still define Logias as elements? Anima40 (talk) 04:08, April 15, 2014 (UTC) Since Oda has never actually said that they ARE elements, even though it's obvious to us. However he did say they are forces of nature here: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30 Anima40 (talk) 04:07, April 15, 2014 (UTC) We're allowed to draw our own conclusions. This is one of the times when we don't have to suck on the info teat. Element is fine. 05:18, April 15, 2014 (UTC) Thanks, and yeah I agree, was just double checking to make sure. Anima40 (talk) 07:05, April 15, 2014 (UTC) Trivia Wars So yeah, apparently someone has a problem with this removal of trivia. Quick explanation why they're useless: *The rarity is already talked about in the article. It's not that members of powerful organizations tend to get logias, it's that logia users tend to end up in powerful organizations. And the strength of logia fruits is already mentioned. *Technically even Sabo and Ace were antagonistic towards Luffy at first. But in any case, this is simply pointing out the obvious. *Logia user being killed by a logia user is not trivia-worthy. Just like paramecia getting killed by a paramecia etc. It's meaningless. *Not all of the canon logias can produce large-scale destruction either (swamp, smoke, mucus). And the non-canon elements aren't really any more "peculiar" than mucus. *Again, the rarity is already talked about in the article. Discuss. 15:13, March 6, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, i agree with this they're not worth keeping 15:20, March 6, 2015 (UTC) Yeah, I'm in favor of removing the trivia. The trivia section is meant to detail points that either shouldn't go in the other parts of the article for some reason (such as if it's information from outside the manga/anime/movies), or just interesting things that don't warrant an inclusion in the main article because they're not super important, just cool to know. Reiterating information and speculation don't belong there.--Xilinoc (talk) 15:21, March 6, 2015 (UTC) I'm also in favor of removing the trivia. 15:42, March 6, 2015 (UTC) I'm also in favor of removing the trivia. 17:51, March 6, 2015 (UTC) I'm also in favor of removing the trivia. 17:54, March 6, 2015 (UTC) Yeah remove them. This is why Wikipedia don't have a trivia section anymore Joekido (talk) 23:42, March 6, 2015 (UTC) Has Sabo proven that Logia users don't need to train their reflexes? Just re-read his fight against Fujitora and there's absolutely no way he trained his mera mera skills on time for that fight. He turns into fire when the horizontal gravity hits him. The abilities probably work where it just changes body parts into the element/force of nature when it detects damage, not via their conscious training. Anima40 (talk) 10:22, March 29, 2015 (UTC) Enel's fruit can I ask this, "Enel's ability has been trained to the point that he could reflexively change into his lightning form while partially asleep" where do you get this info? Just click the reference number right behind the statement for where it comes from. 12:31, February 4, 2017 (UTC) *Every canon Logia comes from a natural element or force of nature, except for Katakuri's Mochi Mochi no Mi which comes from a man-made material i.e Mochi candy. Need to remove this part. Eyad1 (talk) 20:31, August 5, 2017 (UTC)